Thursday, August 15, 2013

F:35 South Korean next generation fighter bidding ends tomorrow

An update on the bidding for South Korea's next generation of fighters. DefenseWorld.net has it. The three day process is to be concluded tomorrow. Some insight:
The [South Korean] Air Force is keen to purchase the F-35 to balance military power across the Asia-Pacific region considering its stealth capability. Currently, China is developing stealth fighters and Japan plans to acquire a total of 42 F-35s.
So they recognize the value of stealth technology.  Even Boeing understands it to the point they're willing to change the design of the F-15.  That should tell you all you need to know about the critics who blather on about the unimportance of low observability aircraft:
In order to catch up with the F-35 stealth jet, the Chicago-based Boeing “conceptually” patched up its F-15 Strike Eagle with a few features for low-observable capability. What it has proposed are conformal weapons bays (CWB), radar-absorbent material and canted vertical tails ― although they still cannot stop critics from casting doubt on the functionality of these.

According to DAPA, the introduction of twin vertical tails set outward at 15 degrees requires direct Korean investment. “The Silent Eagle is so named because of its stealth function, but without tilting the vertical tails, the aircraft will not be able to reduce its radar cross section (RCS) from the side,” Shin In-kyun, president of the Korea Defense Network said. “The F-15 is an aircraft whose RCS is high along with the Sukhoi Su-27.
Once again, no matter how hard you try, if low observability hasn't been engineered into the airframe from the beginning, all you can do is try to take marginal steps to lower the RCS.  But it will never be equal too or superior too an aircraft which was engineered to be LO.

Graff

20 comments:

  1. Some how I doubt Japan will buy 42 F-35's, not when China will build hundreds of its own F-35 killers. Japan's own recently launched big deck carrier should be able to handle at least 20 JSF's. 42 F-35's won't be enough for their budding carrier fleet let alone for their Air Force.

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  2. Eurofighter · F-15SE, FX prices to meet present expenses

    Expenses exceed 8.3 trillion won virtually eliminated F-35A views

    (AP) Kim Ho-jun reporter = next fighter (FX) the last 16 days of the date of the bid price Eurofighter (EADS) and the F-15SE (Boeing) have formulated our government to meet the total project cost was known to be present prices.

    The other hand, is an agreement between the government Foreign Military Sales (FMS) method is applied to F-35A (Lockheed Martin) to meet the total project cost can not provide prices that are likely to be virtually eliminated as is observed.

    www.yonhapnews.co.kr/politics/2013/08/16/0505000000AKR20130816081100043.HTML

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  3. F-15, Eurofighter vie for F-X project

    By Kang Seung-woo

    Boeing’s F-15 Silent Eagle and European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company (EADS)’s Eurofighter Tranche 3 Typhoon came within the given budget of the F-X program, an industry source said, Friday.

    According to the source, Boeing and the EADS met the procurement price of 8.3 trillion won ($7.5 billion) on the final day of an extra three-day auction for purchase of 60 “next-generation” fighter jets.

    The other combat plane, which was up against the F-15 and the Eurofighter, is Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II in the Air Force program to buy 60 combat planes to replace its obsolete fleet of F-4s and F-5s.

    The Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) also admitted that there is at least one who satisfied the procurement price, but declined to announce how many aircraft closed the price gap citing the ongoing procedure.

    “As there were companies that offered price within the program budget, we will proceed to the next step,” DAPA Spokesman Baek Youn-hyeong said in a press briefing.

    DAPA will shortly evaluate all three fighter jets before a committee meeting, presided over by Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin, picks a winner next month. No specific date has been confirmed.

    However, the procurement agency added that although all three aircraft will be under assessment, any aircraft that exceeds the budget will not be signed for the F-X contract.

    There is a possibility that there will be no winner based on the evaluation, as well.

    Starting on June 18, DAPA held a total of 55 bidding sessions for three weeks, but all competitors failed to satisfy the budget requirements and as a result, DAPA temporarily suspended the project on July 5.

    If it had been no firm which closed the price gap, DAPA would have declared the bid a failure and reconsidered the program from scratch.

    The F-35 stealth jet was seen as the favorite from the beginning of the project given South Korean Air Force’s long pursuit of stealth fighter jets that can pass through North Korea’s complex web of radars and given the close relations between Korea and the U.S., the home country of Boeing.

    But the company cannot lower its bid, given that the U.S. government is unable to offer a fixed price because the stealth jet is still being manufactured and simultaneously tested.

    In addition, the Park Geun-hye administration is focusing on funding 135 trillion won in welfare spending, so the Ministry of Strategy and Finance reportedly rejected DAPA’s call for a budget increment.

    after failing to find a bidder who placed bids within budget constraints

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/08/116_141219.html

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  4. www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWhl4zkSznc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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  5. Aww, look at Rhino! Everything he's said has been shown to be bullshit, so, well, he just broke. Like always, he decided to respond to reasoned thought and logic with DUMBSPAM -- because DUMBSPAM is all that Rhino has the ability to write. He believes that You Tube videos actually prove something, and thinks they represent valid weapons system analysis. After all, people with qualifications contradict his opinion, so he CAN'T listen to knowledgeable, qualified people! No, his preferred source of knowledge is You Tube, because only people with no clue what they're talking about and access to basic video editing software support his BS opinions. Logical, rational people realize that their opinions must conform to reality. Rhino, on the other hand, attempts (in complete futility) to bend reality to meet his opinions.

    If Rhino actually had a brain to work with, he would have realized that the operational price of the F-35 is equal to or lower than the Super Hornet. He would have realized that prices are decreasing, just as it was predicted they would, due to increased production. He would realize that the F-35 is following the price path of ALL combat aircraft -- higher than average prices when only a few are being produced, and much lower prices when the aircraft enters mass production.

    Of course, all of that is assuming Rhino actually has a brain, and actually understands any of the mental refuse that is spewing out of his mouth at an alarming rate (due to a staggering level of mental incompetence, and an affliction known as "incontinence of the mouth"). Since Rhino has no clue what he's talking about, and prefers to plug his ears and ignore people who DO know what they're saying (after all, they jeopardize his precious opinions!), as well as blindly blathering on about ideas that have long since been proven to be false, he fails to do so.

    So Rhino continues to go on, idiotically making statements that are completely unsupported by reality, and stubbornly demanding that the entire universe bend to meet his opinions. Hopefully, he will come to his senses and realize how stupid his statements are; however, judging by the complete lack of logic or basic judgement skills he has exhibited thus far, I'd say that is pretty unlikely.

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  6. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. You *still* think that You Tube videos are a valid source of analysis?

    1) Pierre Sprey never designed an aircraft, yet *still* insists on acting as if he has.

    2) Basically everything Sprey says about "complex" vs "simple" and "heavy" vs "light" aircraft is identical to what the "we don't know anything about defense projects, but we think our opinion matters" group have said for over three decades. If you'd like to read a complete debunking of the "theory" behind "light and simple" aircraft, read "Military Reform: The High-Tech Debate and Tactical Air Forces" by Walter Kross, someone who, unlike Sprey, Wheeler, Kopp, and yourself, actually has experience working with combat aircraft. If you read that, you'll find that the entire argument Sprey is making is utter bullshit.

    Of course, doing that will challenge your precious beliefs, so I already know you won't listen to anything I've said. You'll just keep blathering on about your opinion and pretending that anyone of any importance actually cares about what you think.

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  9. Don't say it to me, say it to the S.Koreans, or the Australians who still buying Super Hornets and Growlers or to the Israelis who where forced to accept the lemon.

    At the end probably S.Korea will will be forced too.

    www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/ss_israel0641_07_12.asp

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  10. Squeal squeal squeal!

    A rational person would recognize that Israel was not "forced" to accept the F-35. They selected the F-35 after an extensive review that compared the capabilities of the Lightning to the other aircraft that were available. Of course, you are the complete opposite of rational, so I didn't exactly expect you to realize that fact.

    In your deluded mind, whenever a country buys a 4.5 generation aircraft as a stopgap to provide an interim solution before a better aircraft can be procured (which is what Australia is doing, contrary to your statement that leaves out half of the story by just saying they are "buying Super Hornets"), they are doing so because they believe the 4.5 gen aircraft is better than the fifth gen aircraft. However, when they select a fifth gen aircraft that is obviously superior as their "top of the line" aircraft, they made that decision because there was some Byzantine conspiracy to "force" them to buy it.

    Do you even realize how stupid you sound?

    The problem you face is that you've run out of arguments. You've already spewed all the bullshit you've ever heard about the F-35, and everything you've said has been found to be false. So, you fall back on the tried-and-true method of constantly shifting your argument and constantly making different claims (many of which are semi- or completely irrelevant), in the hope that at least some of the bullshit you're spouting will stick.

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  11. Israel wanted the Silent Eagle and Obama banned it. That's a fact. When you donate most of the weapons you can choose what to donate or not.

    Korea is a different story, they are buying the airplanes with their own money, like Aussis did.

    why is so hard to accept it? now is just between this two affordable guys

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3K1PzmH-2Q

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvEDSI1nf3E

    At least, L. Martin did a nice video for them

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=7izoCHJi5W4

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    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Obama banned the Silent Eagle? Where are you GETTING this bullshit? The F-15SE has been offered for export to South Korea, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and several other countries. It was NOT "banned".

      Israel joined the F-35 program in 2003, and issued a request for aircraft in 2006. The F-15SE wasn't even unveiled until 2009. The idea that Israel wanted the F-15SE prior to being "forced" to use the F-35 is preposterous -- Israel bought into the program and requested aircraft before anyone even knew the F-15SE EXISTED!

      Yep. Australia is buying their aircraft with their own money. And they decided to buy the F-35. D'oh!

      So this is what you've come to. Not content to limit your arguments to illogical comparisons and fanboy logic, you've just started outright lying. In your desperate, sad attempt to discredit the F-35, you've just lied twice about entire program.

      Either make statements that are actually true, or shut up, you lying sack of shit. You belong to a special class of people -- a class of people that is so desperate to have their opinions justified that they lie to act as if they have "evidence" supporting their claims.

      You make me physically sick, you goddamn liar.

      Delete
    3. Enjoy it

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzeN4MbxbuE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=f85qHZqKwlQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl3g5DxSA-s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

      Delete
    4. And that's how content-free your "arguments" (which are actually just blocks of DUMBSPAM) are. All you can do is post irrelevant You Tube links and act like people with video software and no experience actually matter when it comes to defense systems analysis. Then, you bold face lie, and when your ridiculous lies are pointed out, you retreat into your mountainous piles of bullshit, and pretend the whole thing never happened.

      All you've got left are lies, snide comments, and idiotic You Tube links. Every argument you've posted has been debunked, so you're just desperately clamping on to every last lie you can.

      All you are is an Internet troll, you miserable liar.

      Delete
  12. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  13. And I find it so funny that your current strategy involves posting random You Tube links of flying aircraft. Which proves... something?

    It really makes me wonder what goes on inside your (rather empty) skull...

    "Oooooh! I've got a video of an aircraft flying! That'll prove that it's the best aircraft EVUR! I mean, all the arguments I've made about this aircraft being the best have been disproved, but I mean... I've got a video of the plane FLYING! How could anyone disagree with this ironclad evidence of the aircraft's superiority? Clearly, I have won the debate!"

    If the point of those videos was to "prove" that Australia isn't buying the F-35, then I must say, you've gotten even more bold with your lying scheme. Australia is part of the F-35 project, and is buying F-35s. You can lie all you want (lying does seem to be the one thing you're good at), but that's a fact.

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  14. http://defense-update.com/20130819_boeing-f-15se-silent-eagle-for-korea.html

    ReplyDelete
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